Curse

Gli · Nov 05, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Oh, this argument again.

It's impossible to earn access to the Factions elite missions by just playing the game. You need to socialize to get there. That's crap. Period. It's a goddamn game not an internet dating service.

I'd sooner eat glass than leave my 6 people guild of real life friends and join a faceless mass of internet pod people, i.e. a faction farming alliance.

Nikki Moonlight · Nov 05, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Aron searle=correct in every way possible

Artisan · Nov 05, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

You absolutely did not pay for all the areas in the game. You paid for the game as it was designed by the people who created it. You paying 50 bucks or whatever for the game doesn't mean that you obtain the right to order the people who designed the game to make a major design change.

VGJustice · Nov 05, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Oh, this argument again.

It's impossible to earn access to the Factions elite missions by just playing the game. You need to socialize to get there. That's crap. Period. It's a goddamn game not an internet dating service.

I'd sooner eat glass than leave my 6 people guild of real life friends and join a faceless mass of internet pod people, i.e. a faction farming alliance.

I was in one of those guilds once. They wanted 5k faction donated every day by every member, and an average of 6k faction donated by all officers/leaders every day.

Competition between the guilds of the aliance had everyone at everyone's throat ("So and So guild is holding us all back") and it was rarely enjoyable to talk to any of them. Then, the learder of the Aliance disbanded the whole thing without warning and the guild I was in decided to go straight PvP with threats to kick anyone that wanted to PvE. I left before they had a chance to kick me.

This happened in one week.

No, while I do NOT condone the utter crap that is Aliance Control, I see little wrong with the Favor system. If the Favor system were disbanded then there wouldn't be any reason to play HA. That also defeats a pretty major part of the game, the global competition aspect. Don't like HA? Well, no problem, but if you're not willing to play that part then you don't really have any complaining room when parts of the game become inaccessable. Rewards come from work, and if you're not willing to work for those rewards then why do you feel entitled to them?

The Prince · Nov 05, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

if anet is so concerned about making this game egalitarian by nerfing farming and updating the game to make it more equal, then why have certain areas only accessible by a relatively group of people, or a guild that concerns itself with faction farming lutgardis, while everyone else has to PAY ingame money for the priviledge of playing through a mission that should be open to everyone at all times. If Anet wants to reward the faction farmers, give them an area yes, but dont cut off access to the elite missions to those who want to be able to play the game without either joining a faction farming guild or having to pay for a ferry when there is no guarantee there will even be people there to form a group with

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

No, while I do NOT condone the utter crap that is Aliance Control, I see little wrong with the Favor system. If the Favor system were disbanded then there wouldn't be any reason to play HA. That also defeats a pretty major part of the game, the global competition aspect. Don't like HA? Well, no problem, but if you're not willing to play that part then you don't really have any complaining room when parts of the game become inaccessable. Rewards come from work, and if you're not willing to work for those rewards then why do you feel entitled to them?

Part of the flaw in that argument is that there are people who are willing to go to HA, however its pretty near impossible to get a group unless you've been in HA for a long time and can flash your rank emote, or are in a PvP guild. Not to mention that to go earn favor to access an area like UW that you want to go into will take hours, and then add to that the hours spend in UW...unless someone has a whoooole lot of free time, asking someone to go earn favor for themselves to go access the endgame areas is a bit excessive.

Str0b0 · Nov 05, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

What tickles me about these types of people is that 90% of the time if you put them in the Elite mission they would immediately become a liability to any group they are in because they simply aren't good enough to be in an elite area. Of course that doesn't stop them from wanting to be in the Elite areas though. I remember that during the elite mission weekend, The Deep was flooded with newbs and most of them had no idea what the mission entailed. They couldn't communicate, they couldn't work as a team and most players just got fed up with them and the entire Elite weekend. There were so many Leroy's down there it was ridiculous, and a lot of whiners complaining that they couldn't get into groups because they lacked the proper build. Those elite areas are difficult to do and require a well planned out team with certain builds that have well defined jobs to do. There isn't a lot of room for experimentation. I've seen even proper groups fail The Deep and the Warren through no fault of their own, they just got beat by the mission. So what makes every Tom Dick and Harry think that they can compete in these high end areas?

garethporlest18 · Nov 05, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

While I do not mind about favor or the boring Elite missions, the current one, entailing no info at all is quite annoying. Favor is pretty easy, we may get it in the afternoon but it's usually after 8 pm CST we get it. With NF out it's been a little bit later, just have to have patience.

Also Strobo, equality that's what. Everyone does deserve a chance. You can't get better at anything unless you learn by trying it out. I was a noob at the Deep when I went in too, but my group got all the way to the end even with our noobness. I agree that some people need to learn how to follow directions and co-operate, those who had no idea what the mission entailed and did follow and communicate nothing was wrong with them.

The elite missions aren't for the elite, they can be for any player.

The Prince · Nov 05, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

What tickles me about these types of people is that 90% of the time if you put them in the Elite mission they would immediately become a liability to any group they are in because they simply aren't good enough to be in an elite area. Of course that doesn't stop them from wanting to be in the Elite areas though. I remember that during the elite mission weekend, The Deep was flooded with newbs and most of them had no idea what the mission entailed. They couldn't communicate, they couldn't work as a team and most players just got fed up with them and the entire Elite weekend. There were so many Leroy's down there it was ridiculous, and a lot of whiners complaining that they couldn't get into groups because they lacked the proper build. Those elite areas are difficult to do and require a well planned out team with certain builds that have well defined jobs to do. There isn't a lot of room for experimentation. I've seen even proper groups fail The Deep and the Warren through no fault of their own, they just got beat by the mission. So what makes every Tom Dick and Harry think that they can compete in these high end areas?

Just because someone isnt able to beat the mission doesnt mean they should not have access to it. Im sure that there are people who played through the first few times and got their asses handed to them. not everyone starts out a pro, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt be able to try. after all, challenge only makes you better, or said more eloquently "Challenge introduces a man to himself"

Str0b0 · Nov 05, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

And what about equality where those of us who do understand those principles are concerned? Don't we have a right to functional groups and well seasoned players? See it's ideas like that that make me play with henchmen instead of people. Equality is all fine and good but too much equality leads to apologetics which is the death of cooperative play. " Oh leave him alone he doesn't know any better." Well let him get chewed out once or twice and I bet he never does it again. Elite missions are rewards for those who have excelled at the game, not a right for everyone regardless of how much you paid. That's why they are ELITE missions and not just missions. This is a competitive game at heart, even in PvE, and the Elite content focuses on that aspect. You must compete, through achievement in alliance battles, skill in build creation, or skill in play in order to access this special content. I'm sorry that's just the way it is and I don't think it should be changed. It would be unfair for those of us who do play well and who have earned the right to be in those areas if you were to just allow anyone, regardless of merit or skill to just hop on in whenever they pleased. The Elite weekend gave people a taste, I think to try to inspire them to compete for the right to go there, but apparently all it did was make people think they were entitled to all content regardless of their abyssmal play skills.

Maxiemonster · Nov 05, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

That argument is bullcrap.

If you have bought a game, I immediately want to be lvl 20 with all skills unlocked, all green items in the game, and fow armor. I mean, I paid for it.

That's exactly what was going through my mind when reading this, this is just nonsense.

Swinging Fists · Nov 05, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

If the Favor system were disbanded then there wouldn't be any reason to play HA.

Are you serious ? I think winning favor is one of the least motivating reasons for most of the people in HA. They are there for competition, fame, fun, and HoH chests. The people who care about favor are standing around in ToA waiting for someone else to win them favor...

Malice Black · Nov 05, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

It's laughable how people are willing to grind for hours just to have "control"..elite missions won't change..yet, I expect in the future that another gateway will be provided..Anet loves keeping the whiners happy..

Str0b0 · Nov 05, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

My Elite mission experience came directly from Alliance battles. I am not a member of an alliance with control but I know people, people that I impressed with my ability to work with a team and knowledge of skills and builds, from alliance battles that give me access to the Elite content. I earned my passage to the Deep and to the Warren. I don't think it's asking too much for other people to do the same. Like Bane said though the whiners usually win out in the end.

Gli · Nov 05, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Elite missions are rewards for those who have excelled at the game, not a right for everyone regardless of how much you paid.

Yeah, it would be great if it worked like that, would't it? Unfortunately the truth of the matter is that the elite missions are rewards for people who are part of a faction grinding factory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

That's why they are ELITE missions and not just missions. This is a competitive game at heart, even in PvE, and the Elite content focuses on that aspect. You must compete, through achievement in alliance battles, skill in build creation, or skill in play in order to access this special content.

I'm sorry, are you talking about "Guild Wars: Factions"? Just checking, because, my Guild Wars: Factions doesn't let me into the elite missions no matter how good I am, no matter how much individual effort I put into it, no matter how much effort my guild puts into it. No matter what, except begging, or joining up with a couple of hundred of faceless people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I'm sorry that's just the way it is and I don't think it should be changed. It would be unfair for those of us who do play well and who have earned the right to be in those areas if you were to just allow anyone, regardless of merit or skill to just hop on in whenever they pleased.

No one is asking for unlimited and unrestricted access, but for an access criterium people can meet on individual merit instead of becoming part of a faceless alliance herd. I'm not a sheep! Baah! Baah!

ChaoticCoyote · Nov 05, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

No one is asking for unlimited and unrestricted access, but for an access criterium people can meet on individual merit instead of becoming part of a faceless alliance herd. I'm not a sheep! Baah! Baah!

QFT.

It makes no sense that PvE access to UW and FoW be controlled by PvP players who don't care about favor!

I've played a hell of a lot of Urgoz's and The Deep and UW and FoW; I've got the items and screen shots to prove my success there. But these days, I can't get into FoW or UW at all during rational hours in America, and access to the Deep and Urgoz's is controlled by selfish guilds.

It is not irrational or whining to point out that the game design isn't working or rational.

Xioden · Nov 05, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by IIIPowerIII

Just get a damn Ferry then! Ppl are offering that Service in Service thread..

What now? you dont wanna pay? You want also free ferry?

I'm not complaining on my behalf, I have a guy camped there to ferry via guild hall for when I need to go there I just need to ask a guildie to help quick. The fact still remains its very limited access to the content, event hough you can get a ferry in. It's not like the old days where there was always someone there doing ferrying, HzH/Cavalon are all but dead and you can't rely on prearranging something for something you want to do at that given time.

Eviance · Nov 05, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Str0b0 everyone starts at the bottom sometime or another, but a good group with 1-2newbs does not mean that the whole thing is dewmed because obviously if the rest are that good then it shouldn't be an issue. And if at least one of those newbs can be taught then he is a better player and can thusly find a group.

All the favor system at this point shows is that Europe enjoys pvp more than pve and that Americans enjoy pve about as much as they do pvp. While I can agree that the favor system has some flaws it is not as simple as saying - Go get us favor! However I do not know of any way to effectively and fairly change it.

As for the Deep and Urgoz the reason that people are complaining so much is because not only can they not locate/play the Elonian Elite missions - but because of NF's release they cannot find anyone in these Faction elite towns to ferry them... I think in the end all of this will sort itself out and that people will find something else to complain about. However atm there is no reason to start a flame war based on the pure frustration of the masses.

Right now most people want to know the following: Are there Elite missions in Elona? If there are, how do we access it/them?
I think from there people can/will figure the rest out for themselves even if it means switching over to Euro ~_^

Whiplashr · Nov 05, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

It's laughable how people are willing to grind for hours just to have "control"..elite missions won't change..yet, I expect in the future that another gateway will be provided..Anet loves keeping the whiners happy..

Do you ever post *anything* that isn't a smug, full of yourself put down on everyone? Yes, we know, you have never whined about anything in your life, and are clearly so much better and more well balanced than any of us. Do you feel better about yourself now champ? God you are fvcking annoying as all hell. Stupid, know it all horses ass. Get over yourself.

Str0b0 · Nov 05, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eviance

Str0b0 everyone starts at the bottom sometime or another, but a good group with 1-2newbs does not mean that the whole thing is dewmed because obviously if the rest are that good then it shouldn't be an issue. And if at least one of those newbs can be taught then he is a better player and can thusly find a group.

Granted. I'll give you that. I have no problem what-so-ever with taking on someone that genuinely wants to learn to work with a team and who wants to learn how to effectively use a certain build or run a certain mission. In fact I love to teach. Those players though are a minority and you know it. How many times have you got some newbie in your party that keeps screwing up and you might not even be a jerk about it? I know I once had this orders necro in tombs casting BR on my barrage ranger constantly. Totally unnecessary waste of time, health and energy on his part. I said," Hey you know I don't really need BR, save it for the MM and the monks. All I need is for you to keep on casting orders." This guy flips on me." STFU newb I know what I'm doing. Don't f***ing tell me how to play my build." Then he rage quits. It's sad to say but that's the majority of your newb players. I honestly blame the forum community for a lot of it. Now before I get killed for saying that let me put this qualifier in there. I blame the forum community for putting easy access to advanced information out there. It's a symptom of communication and it's not solveable. What you end up with is a bunch of first timers looking up builds that they don't properly understand and then you end up with problems. Unfortunately I have no solution for this particular problem.

Eviance · Nov 05, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Yeah this is very true and very sad -_- Its wonderful when you find someone to teach though and they learn to be excellent, I just wish there were more people like that *sighs* AND I agree about the advanced info completely. When people starting complaining about the nerf I just said, give it a few days and then your searching abilities can go back into play and all will be right with the world again.
Having an awesome build on your bar and running it effectively/properly are two different things -_-

Anyways back to the majority of the topic: Gaile posted in another thread that they are looking into the elite NF missions and she will get back to us in a day or so with hopefully plenty of info.